decup

Clan National Assembly of Rifle Forces's private forum - http://narf.aq2.org/

Moderators: dudemcpek, Caracol

memento
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decup

Post by memento »

http://decup.eeas.no/

-
[19:28] <NARF> they already invited 8 clans
[19:28] <memento> oh.. so are we in?
[19:28] <NARF> other 17 clans signed up so far
[19:28] <NARF> yes, but we will have to play qualification
-

every clan need 3maps for this cup.
wfall, jungle1 <- locked, 3rd map??

acitivity-check; if you are active and you got time to play this "cup"
add your name to this thread if you are in for this cup..

matic can post more info..

mahna mahna :hop:
*A, -=sMt=-, <!>, <i.4>, [CS], NtD, hU, #club-4, .R., #ace, FuBaR, [NARF], -T-, [M.I], [Lite], <+>. :GHS:
Snipa
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Post by Snipa »

Strange maps, but i'll play everything, except mesto.
aka -F8-
dudemcpek
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Post by dudemcpek »

I'm for warehouse, looks crazy :D
L0ki
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Post by L0ki »

warehouse
It looks nice but as stated in IRC I've never played it in a match and I am not aware of spawns, etc. I think it's a fast map, definetly for sprayers and m3/hc only, definetly close range. I think it would require some matches to get used to gameplay here, but no big, complex tactic needed. Good in case we don't have a sniper at hand. Out of this maps, my number #3.

rhcity1
My own suggestion rhcity1 is an old-time-friend. It's quite fast, but may has some space for a decent sniper. The tunnelsystem and roofs need some good tactic, which we would have to study. So this map needs quite some effort to get used to. Anyway, this is my favourite #1 and I did vote it, because I see potential in this map for the future of NARF, after the cup. An option to wfall imho.

wargroun
This is kinda fast, but as already been said in IRC by Alex/Frank - the scandies know how to play this very well. Without lots of praccy a no-go in my opinion.

highrise
Is this fast at all? I am aware that in my time at dnegative NARF did play this quite successfull (in the aq2w-league), but...is it fast at all?

tension1
According to this prechoice of maps, this is the worst one in my opinion. It's medium-fast, but there aren't many tactics to vary, etc. It 'feels' kinda boring.

tjt
My personal #2. Why? Well this is a good addition to wfall & jungle1 in case we got a 2nd offensive, handsome sniper (in addition to fl0p). Tactics can be easily made and studied. It sure feels like teamjungle, but is much faster. Needs little time to get-used-to imho.

teamdepo
Fast, narrow. Good for the case we don't have a sniper at hand. Why not?
L0ki
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Post by L0ki »

Another post, but with a different topic. About my activity...

As already said in #narf-priv today, I am thinking about not participating in the cup. This has multiple reasons I will explain a little further here.

1) Experiences in the last cup (daddies cup)
While playing the last cup we could only stick to a very small team. This team was skilled enough to get into the quarter finals. In the very end, before having the match vs. quad we were like 5 players (cRiM, Matiz, Flop, Cara, me) that really tried to study tactics and prepare for the upcoming, tough match. You'll find a little resumee of the match here. The other players were active from time to time, tried to learn the tactics, but it was pretty obvious who will play the match. This gave me (and flop as well for example, I know because we talked about it back then) a lot of pressure. I usually play pretty constant, but what in case I don't in this particular match? There ain't any alternate players that worked into the tactics! Jesus, I literally had nightmares back then. On the one hand very thrilling, on the other very very stressful. Seriously, I don't wanna have that kind of pressure again. I wanna be able to sub when I suck and have the good conscience that my substitute is solid enough concerning the tactics, so he can do the job on my position that I wasn't able to do.
I still doubt that it will be different this time. Matiz mentioned more than once that some, certain players just aren't sticking to tactics and having an eye on what's happening around them (i.e. sniper stays back while 2on1). Every player (maybe except McFail - dunno) should know the tactics and gameplay on wfall by now. For the upcoming cup we'll have to practice two more maps that are new to this team (not to the individums, but to the team as such). We'll even have to study opponent's maps, and have to quickly learn new tactics and get used to the maps. I am unsure if this team is willing to do so.

2) Whining
I feel like the biggest whiner in the past days/weeks. I actually (someone said that very precisely) whine about the whining. It annoys me so much I even thought about leaving the team.
I'll try to explain what I've recognized.
We have some players that care about their ping a lot. You can have different views on ping at all, but that's not what I wanna discuss now. Sad is, that some players whine about their ping and servers a lot but kinda are not noticing (Is there something wrong with your eyesight?) when the opponent got ping 150 as well. That happened today again for example. I hear phrases like "but they lamed us on their server, it's just fair". No it's not. Seriously. This is childish elbow-mentality. I am actually very proud of the (little) reputation I gained for being a fair opponent. Other players receive either respect or ignorance for the way they behave towards me, but never counter-laming. I am sick of doing the excuse for a teammate that misbehaved. I did that more than once in the last days (2-3 times).
Furthermore, I want every player here to ask himself a question: "Am I a sissie in real life?" Personally I assume you are not. If we are about to meet a friend, we don't tell him that he is the one to come over to our place, we don't call a taxi, we just walk the 15 minutes he live away. Do you whine about your opponent's 120Euro-football-boots when you have a match of soccer in a nearby park? No, you don't. But somehow, when it comes to ping, to server, to the own ISP, etc. most players become sissies very fast. This is....sad. Some may say that my examples are not quite the same. They are. It's about suffering things that are sub-optimal. We usually do this pretty often and we usually do it without whining in real life.
I wanna add another example on this point. Few weeks ago, Matiz, cRiM, Floppy & me played Darts in a pub near our place. You should know that I'm not a god a darts but I play more or less regularly. Floppy were playing in a place he's never been before, filled with lots of people that speak a foreign language. He was playing with my darts , which might not have suited him well (weight). He didn't whine, he just played and won four out of four games. None of us did whine (seriously, besides some laughing "bastard"-calls) at all. I miss this mentality in NARF when it comes to computer games. Hopefully you'll get my point.
Please think about it.

Well, I made a statement few days ago, that I'll simply leave the server when this whining occures again. This happened today. It's just ... a consequence I take. I don't wanna leave the server during the cup, so I am thinking about not participating at all.

Your chance to press the button.
omega
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Post by omega »

i agree with point 1). if we want to be successful we have to learn tactics
on our opponents maps too. concering the team which played in the daddies-
cup: i do not know why i was not playing, but in most of the matches i
participated in i did not feel like not being used to the tactics on wfall.
there is one more thing i want to add: there should be only one who gives
the orders during a game (=captain?). the other teammates may point at
useless tactics, so the captain has the possibility to react. probably it
would be a good thing if we discuss matches afterwards (feedback to every
player, gameplay, etc.). my arguments are of course expandable!


ad point 2): it has a strong influence on the whole team and gameplay when
a teammate starts to whine. each of us is not forced to play so if someone
do not like the conditions of a server or a match he has to think about it
before the game starts. we are not playing for money but for fun and we
want to be successful too. therefore we have to get to know tactics on
other maps.


ad maps: i was always prefering wargroun, but urs' arguments seem to be
obvious. my comments to the other maps in l0kis order:

rhcity1: i played it a few times with .at but have not got enough
practice i guess. it is a very dark map but if you got good ideas there
urs, here we go.

tjt: much better for teamplay in here than in teamjungle. it is a
good alternative to wfall (very similar) but i think there are many other
clans who are used to the map and its gameplay.

warehouse: it seems to be very small, isn't it? and i do not know
if this is an advantage for us.

teamdepo: homemap of .at and in the end we got a good gameplay
there. disadvantages: it is full of sticky hc action in the house and
very good for snipers who cam...erm play very defensively.

new mirror: take a look at it and tell me what you think.
ideal size, light. possibilities for snipers, sprayers, m3. it reminds me
a little bit of plaza. link: http://aq2mw.wh00s.net/maps.php?id=52
Image
http://www.nem3d.net » revenge in the third dimension
http://aut.ipax.at/ » austrian aq2 scene
http://narf.aq2.org/ » clan narf
Caracol
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Post by Caracol »

Main reason I left the whole. I can partially understand world's lameness when it comes to the opponents, you can ignore them and try to finish the match without bothering, but when it comes to your fellow mates complaining and searching for the most known excuse possible for not "owning", then it's all boring.

Anyway, I kinda feel L0ki took my position when I left, trying to keep it fair at a level and controlling a bit the euforia of the mates.

At the moment, AQ2 just depresses me, somehow the worst of the worst comes up when playing. Somehow, there will always be the stupid prick fucking it all up.
And when the game gets fucked up the whole time you spent playing rots and there's nothing but remorse for wasting life surrounded by morons.

I would gladly come back if it wasn't for what's depicted before, it's a shame I'm not showing the world how good I am at this :P.
Ne quid nimis.
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Post by Apocalyps »

For the activity part; i'm pretty active but i just have things like work and school and a bit of social things ... not really sure what it is :P but if these matched get proper planned i can arrange to make time for it, or if i can't, i can notify ppl about it in an early stage.

For the part where Caracol left and L0ki kinda took the part on him from just trying to be fair without whining, i kind of agree with it. L0ki keeps the spirit high but sometimes people seek lame excuses for having a badday. But like a wise man said once "Who can't stand bad times, won't have good times" so it's not bad to face some loses or times when our teamplay sucks, but sometimes its sad when ppl think explinations and excuses are the same.

But remember, in the end this is all a game, which we play for fun in the first place, dont get depressed from it caus it would be bad if a computer game has an effect on your real life. It's a pain in the ass to see a good player like Caracol getting a big break in AQ2 but it's better then seeing someone going down for a game.

So i hope Caracol will someday show the world how good he really is ;)

For the maps ... i'll just play the map who is chosen by the most of us. No whining...Just Playing...Having Fun!

And l0ki we really need to drink a beer soon :P
dudemcpek
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Post by dudemcpek »

About the third map, I don't care which one it really is since I can play any map, as long as it's not really anti-AQ2 map. I rather see that others pick a map and then I adjust to it.


The other issue, 'whine' - which is mostly a ping issue. Sorry Urs but you are really wrong when saying ping is nothing, only a number. We Slovenes have different ping on mostly every server out there. I have to be lucky to have 80 ping in Scandinavia. You will never understand this issue, but it's hard when we are sure ping was the main problem we lost/sucked/got walked over. Don't mention me modem days, I've had modem for 2 years and those times were different. Nowadays I even have to be lucky I ping 35 to our own server.
And yes, I've played shit loads of clanwars so it's not just another lame excuse. Because if I'm not really pissed I don't talk bullshit or give lame excuses. Sure, sometimes it happens, but not as many times as it could.

About misbehaving, we are one of the most fair and well behaved clans out there. We rarely have a go at someone or whine. I think that we are sometimes even too kind and bitching back at the enemy enough. We let them control us too much sometimes. Yes, it's the right thing and it's just a game for fun, but it mostly doesn't pay off. I like it the way we do it and are, but it's just not worthy because almost no opponent appreciate/give a shit/even think about it.
We got our asses spanked quite some times being too fair and 'well behaved' towards an opponent because they took it as advantage. And that kills the joy of the game and makes it just a thrown away effort.
L0ki
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Post by L0ki »

This is sad. I am sorry but I will not participate in the cup. No need for struggles.

Sincerly,
-L0ki melted
dudemcpek
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Post by dudemcpek »

Whatever. As you wish.



If no one else is going to vote or give any comments I'll simply add rhcity1 as our third map.

People wanting to play the cup are meme, flop, frank, snipa, mysterious and myself. Omega didn't say much about it, too busy nowadays? Also, no words from McFail nor crim.

Oh well, all depends on who we get in qualification round.
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Post by Floppy »

L0ki, wtf? :( :( We need you ffs.

Warehouse - Never heard of.. i just downloaded it and it seems too small I guess. There would be too much camping with m4 behind the boxes..
Rhcity1 - don't like it pretty much and maybe some stupid opponents would stay down ... and it would be annoying, huh?
Wargroun - hmmm, i don't know, i can't snipe there... Well, still the best option till now i think :)
Highrise - No way, too slow, can't win more than +10.
Tension1 - This could be it. It's not as opened map as wfall, but still fine.
Tjt - Yea I would love to play tjt hehe, but i don't know if we can win much there, still could be pretty campy.
Teamdepo - Nice map, but not for cws. HC in enemy's hands inside the house...

So i prefer tension1 :)
But...
What about airport, time, tokyo or cloud2 ?

L0ki, I hope you change your mind !!!

Have phun.
L0ki
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Post by L0ki »

Floppy wrote:L0ki, wtf? :( :( We need you ffs.
L0ki, I hope you change your mind !!!
Then answer me a simple question or answer it at least for yourself:
Why should I spend my time on a hobby where so much bothers me and where some people refuse to look further than just a couple of inches when I could instead spend time with my girlfriend/earn some money/play darts/write a good song/read a book?

While thinking about this whole...issue the last few days I questioned myself more than once: is it too much I am asking for? Well, I always come to the same conclusion: it aint.
dudemcpek
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Post by dudemcpek »

Well, Urs, everything can't be perfect and sometimes you can't get what you want. It's like that with AQ2. You got to take some of it, some negative stuff in order to achieve something. That's AQ2, like I said, community won't pay you back, never. You better don't know how many times I got pissed off by this game and I still didn't threaten to quit it.
You better not know how hard it is to be a match arranger for a clan. Before Matias joined the clan I had to arrange every match. Then you really see what the scene is like, and I can tell you that being too nice and fair doesn't pay off. You end up having yourself as a fool because they don't see the issues from your side. They will always take it in their advantage.

Also, arranging a cup or anything similar would show you what the real whine is. No amther how good and nice you are, they will moan about something or blame you.

You can't always get what you want, so please be patient sometimes and just take those negative stuff to yourself.
L0ki
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Post by L0ki »

I am quite shocked at the moment. Did you really wrote that? "Keep that negative stuff to yourself". Is this the way you approach critizism? Is this the way you handle when there are two different views on a certain point? "You can't always get what you want". Jesus, I know that but does that mean I should stop fighting for it?

Hello, you are the leader of this team and I expect you to at least listen to what one of your members (this time: me) is trying to tell when he doesn't feel alright with something concerning this team. And yes, I know what I am talking about: besides being Co-Leader of =DA= and |FoB| and my own Clan Green Berets, I've leaded a lot of teams in real life to achieve a certain aim.

Let's talk "tacheless". I've met you in real life. Only two days but I think I can trust my knowledge of human nature enough to say that you are a kind of sensitive and considerate-alike person and Nils for example would agree with that. Why do you act the opposite way online at the moment? Did I insult you in any way? Did I disrespect you or your opinion? Did I hit a sore spot when I said I won't participate?

I can assure (all of you) that I am not negative at the moment. I am not trying to spread poison. Every post I write here is thoughful, but direct and honest as well.

I am not trying to be patient because it's a simple choice I've to make: how to spend my time. All I tried to say in my last post was: I know better ways to spend my time than being annoyed by an online game, especially when no one tries to improve the situation and you get slapped in the face if you try to improve just a little bit yourself.

A shocked L0ki, still melting...
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