FINLAND!!!!!!!!!

Post by **Clement** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:09 am

imeiz wrote:we have excepted people who can cheat if they want to do that, but naturally people can and will see for theirselves, if there's something suspicious going on.

It's either this or it's what we have now, where everybody is "excepted" and "can cheat if they want to do that".. not that hard to see which is the better solution.

Post by **MarlPoro** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:41 am

Demoni wrote:cuz i can't get my sounds work correctly on newer apr quakes than 1.17

set s_forcesoft "1"

Post by **dudemcpek** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:42 am

Gepardi wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've understood that forcing anticheat wouldn't change a thing for linux-dudes. They'd just have to sign their name on some exceptions-list and they'd be good to go again. On the other hand, it would check windows-fellas for banned modifications, but that shouldn't be a problem for the ones who don't use anything considered as illegal.

If everything stated above applies, then I don't really see what's the problem. It would check the majority of the players for cheats and as far as I'm concerned, that's helluva lot better than checking no one. For busting possible linux-cheaters, we'd just have to go with the current system: asking for a demo(& screenshots) and making a thread about the suspected player. Not a mission impossible either.

imeiz wrote:i know a few people able to code their own cheats. this doesn't make them cheaters but makes their cheats undetectable to about any checker. ac or not, they can code if they want to do that.
But doesn't make them undetectable for the human eye.. I mean, just think of how many players have been caught because someone recorded and made a thread about them. Plus, I'm pretty sure there are more people able to cheat now than after forcing AC.
So basically you're saying we shouldn't try catching any cheaters before there's a system that allows us to try catching all cheaters? At least I'd prefer playing in a public server that has only 1 cheater than in a server that has 5.

Agreed.

imeiz wrote:i'm not saying we shouldn't try catching people, just asked if this really is a solution for you, and if it's a reason to kinda discriminate linux users.

It's the best damn solution so far. And no one is discriminating you, if you got time working on a linux anticheat, go for it. If your mate can make cheats he might also make anticheat or something since he knows the way.

imeiz wrote:i'd rather have a somewhat working module than no module at all.

It's a well-working anticheat that works for more than 90% people. The rest, you linux users, will stay at the good ol' recording and being watched by big brother.

Gepardi · Post by **Gepardi** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:44 am

Clement wrote:It's either this or it's what we have now, where everybody is "excepted" and "can cheat if they want to do that".. not that hard to see which is the better solution.

Indeed. To simplify:
A (current)
It's easy for both, linux- and windows-users, to cheat.
B (AC forced)
It's easy for linux-users to cheat, but difficult (impossible so far?) for windows-users.

I'd go for B.

imeiz wrote:to me it's a matter of principle.

Uhu, kinda figured that out. I just think you should think about this whole anticheat-thingy more practically, instead of considering it as some huge linux discrimination case. I mean, we're trying to cut down the amount of cheaters here, not linux-players.

bail · Post by **bail** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:54 am

Well lets force it and see what happens.

Materia · Post by **Materia** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:50 am

is it me or why i cant get fps higher than 130 with AC/AC enabled servers?

Post by **imeiz** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:05 am

^ i bet you'll get answers like "wrong thread/forum" or "rtfm noob". (it's ac)

AssKick3r wrote:It's the best damn solution so far. And no one is discriminating you, if you got time working on a linux anticheat, go for it. If your mate can make cheats he might also make anticheat or something since he knows the way.
imeiz wrote:i'd rather have a somewhat working module than no module at all.
It's a well-working anticheat that works for more than 90% people. The rest, you linux users, will stay at the good ol' recording and being watched by big brother.

might be, but still i'm far from being satisfied. maybe i have high standards, but atleast i know a little about how to technically do this, so i don't just assume things out of thin air. i don't have time, nor the ability, but people who are pretty able, have concluded the same as r1ch: it's not possible (or really, really troublesome and complicated, if possible). making cheats is way easier than preventing people from using them.

and you're saying it's no discrimination? i'm not saying it's why i'm voicing out, but can you honestly say this is being fair? r1ch made his choice and i made mine. is someone wrong? if you wanted to cut down just the cheaters, why should there be an ip list of linux players? tho not publically available, i'm against the idea.

sorry, but i can't just accept something that works for "most people", being forced. you can try, but it's not going to get on atleast some of the finnish servers. and then it's again our fault not being ignorant of some of the problems i'm trying to discuss. why should i/we approve this untill we're completely satisfied?

also, i'm against the idea that there's one person controlling the whole thing. what will you do if something happens to r1ch or if he's just not available when needed? well, don't whine then, because you made your choice.

nufan · Post by **nufan** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:42 am

omg you suck imeiz

Da^JuaN · Post by **Da^JuaN** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:11 am

Materia wrote:is it me or why i cant get fps higher than 130 with AC/AC enabled servers?

Thats cause of the maxfps is set to 130, can be raised or decreased.. server side

I used to have more fps as well.. but i cant say im noticing any difference or so.

Gepardi · Post by **Gepardi** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:27 am

imeiz wrote:and you're saying it's no discrimination? i'm not saying it's why i'm voicing out, but can you honestly say this is being fair? r1ch made his choice and i made mine. is someone wrong? if you wanted to cut down just the cheaters, why should there be an ip list of linux players? tho not publically available, i'm against the idea.

Uh.. Again correct me if I'm wrong, but there's an exceptions list so you could actually play?

As far as I know, if anticheat was forced and there was no list for exceptions, none of linux-players could play anymore. Now anticheat-people have made it possible for you to keep on playing just like you always have and you're saying it's discrimination? I'll suggest, once more, not to make it some huge clash between two operating systems, but think it more practically.

Anyway, I think I'll just rest my case here as this is leading nowhere.

Vermin · Post by **Vermin** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:39 am

Nice options in this poll.. well I thought about sharing my opinion why I'm not using this anticheat module.

1. It doesn't like some of my modifications (SOF2 death/pain sounds, Barret sniper rifle from terror quake, darkened ctf-skins). Well, barret might already be supported but those ctf-skins and SOF2 sounds of mine won't ever be supported I guess. And it's also a problem that ppl have different opinions about what is cheating and what is not. There are opinions varying from allowing only the original skins & sounds & everything to allowing almost everything except wh, spikes and the like. Then on what level to force the file checks? Who decides it? There will always be ppl who think that the checks are totally wrong. And also if there is going to be forcing, the checklists should be the same in every server, at least imo.

2. I don't like the attitude going around in AQ2World concerning this ac thingie. Some ppl seem to be blind for any negative feedback concerning the module.

3. In this old and fun game I don't care so much anymore if someone is cheating or not, though I still think that cheaters are scum of course. Well I guess that ppl cheat more on public servers and since I play maybe once or twice per year in public servers, it doesn't annoy me so much.

4. There seems to be some "big brother is watching you" features in this ac that I'm not too fond of. Some of those features are from q2admin I guess but anyway, I don't have enough interest to check these things more closely.

Also this "gap between Finland vs the rest of the wrold" isn't making things any better. Until now it has been mainly the jackasses from both parties who have been flaming each other at least from my point of view. But now also the admins have disagreements about this anticheat module. And from what I've read, both sides have valid arguments. Though I'm still siding with the finnish admins for this one.

The thing is that the "rest of the world" is making the gap even wider now with this ac discussion. I loved the time I spent with AIDS/AiD the most since back then there wasn't that much discriminating about who to take on as opponents and which servers to use. 2xfi isn't the way to go but unfortunately finnish clans can demand that nowadays because our scene is so big when compared to any other country. Well my point in this was that I wouldn't want to see the other scenes getting even smaller just because they are forcing the ac module in their servers. Hehe, when I read my post again I realised that the previous sentence might be taken as a threat, which it isn't meant to be

Oh and if someone is screaming "modified ctf skins! cheater!" then I don't mind, since imo those original ones are more like cheats. Compare by yourselves:

original
modified

RewinD · Post by **RewinD** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:00 am

Forget this poll, and move on people. I think its no need to drag Finland down.
Done is done, eaten is eaten.

Hazard · Post by **Hazard** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:37 am

Just tested ac and works fine, exept now ctf skins are way too colourful and the door sound is pretty loud too. So now i hear better and see ctf skins mutch clearer from enviroment. No other "bad" thing to say this. I just recommended ac to all members in synchrony. Hopefully other finnish people take 5min from their day and install this too.

Lotus · Post by **Lotus** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:02 am

Let´s face it! With cheat or without cheat, no one wins at this game...

Post by **imeiz** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:07 am

Gepardi wrote:Uh.. Again correct me if I'm wrong, but there's an exceptions list so you could actually play? :D As far as I know, if anticheat was forced and there was no list for exceptions, none of linux-players could play anymore. Now anticheat-people have made it possible for you to keep on playing just like you always have and you're saying it's discrimination? I'll suggest, once more, not to make it some huge clash between two operating systems, but think it more practically.

Anyway, I think I'll just rest my case here as this is leading nowhere.

yes, there's an exception list. my ip was on it for a moment, but i decided to have it taken off. naturally it's not wrong that also non-windows players are able to play, but it's wrong that there needs to be a list of those players, because "they don't use our forced anticheat", because anticheat doesn't support them. r1ch drew the line and i stepped on the other side. so did some others.

i'm not saying it's bad for you windows players, tho it might be. that's not the point. if nobody of the minorities voices out, they're not heard. you're also right about this leading to nowhere. most of you don't even try to reply, but just post some bs i should delete. open your eyes and take off the fi/linuxlol goggles.