I see more and more cheaters?
And i see more and more old cheaters?
Why is that?
How come people get unbanned?
How come people dont get banned first time they cheat?
How come you let caught cheaters play in cups, why arent they banned?
Why can cheaters even continue to play?
fuct wrote:I agree. And no unban either. If you are stupid enough to cheat you dont deserve to be allowed to play the game its that simple.
I agree, however the problem with all of this is that usually there is no "sure" way of determining if a player is cheating or not. Most of the threads I've seen in this forum about cheaters are along the lines of "omg! look at this demo, WH WH WH!!"... I mean apart from those busted for speedbots, or aimbots, it's a bit harsh to ban people for life, and with no second chance (no warnings) if you can't be 100% certain that they actually did cheat...
If you ban cheaters the first time, a lot of players will be banned, and it leads to its normal to ban. Which means that you can be banned if some one says you do, without actually doing it.
But i think cheaters shoud be banned first time, just trying to seing it from an other view.
Without an anti-cheat we have to rely on the opinions of a small group of people (AQ2Admins) to tell us who is cheating and who is not. And as long as their opinions are what get people banned/unbanned then there is goin to be controversy over what happens to who. This is why we need an anticheat client because an entire scene resting on the opinions of a small group of people (who I didnt elect) isnt a good thing, unless they are unbiased, and u wont find unbiased people in this scene. Anticheat is the only way forward. You can argue that nocheat got hacked, but before it got hacked it worked.
I apologise if this turns into a world vs. admins discussion this was not my intention, but u cant talk about cheaters without mentioning the people who are supposed to police them.
Do you even know what you are saying? They didn't stop anything but the rubbish stand-alone cheats that have been there for years and made by script kiddies. Instead people started using cheats disguised as the anti-cheat itself. The only thing that stopped this was making a new revision every so often with a new version number, declaring everyone who is using the old version to be cheating.
Clown wrote:Yeah. A new anti-cheat won't get hacked at all.
Do you even know what you are saying? They didn't stop anything but the rubbish stand-alone cheats that have been there for years and made by script kiddies. Instead people started using cheats disguised as the anti-cheat itself. The only thing that stopped this was making a new revision every so often with a new version number, declaring everyone who is using the old version to be cheating.
I understand that clown but cant it be solved by keeping the anticheat up to date? researching how it got hacked and solving the problem? keeping the servers up to date with the latest anticheat? maybe it cant but thats why im asking the questions. Even keeping things up to date around here might be tricky.
And i never said a new one wouldnt get hacked, im sure people try to get around punkbuster etc, maybe some are successful but updating punkbuster (whoever does that) ...wouldnt it protect against the new cheats people are coming up with?
Why anyone would spend time writing new code to get around any anti-cheat client we have around here is beyond me but im sure some moron will. But keeping it 1/10 as up to date as some of the more popular games anticheats should be sufficient..no?
And about declaring the people with the older versions cheaters, without declaring them cheaters that seems like a good idea, make the anticheat mandatory on every server and if u dont have the latest version u cant play on the server, simple, anyone who wouldnt update must have a reason, updating is not exactly a hard thing to do.
Not really. All that ended up happening was the version numbers changing with few minor bug fixes that weren't anything to do with catching cheats. They ended up trying to find ways to make themselves un-hackable rather than stopping cheats. Keeping things up to date doesn't mean spamming version numbers every so often.
Cheats should be fought, question is how. When NC lived the main discussion was y/n to force NC on the servers. Then it got hacked and noone gave a fuck anylonger...
Bryce did a good job imo, but the pay is nonexistant and when users of nc, abusers of nc and everyone in between are ungrateful scum no wonder he gave up on it.
minchiano wrote:Bryce did a good job imo, but the pay is nonexistant and when users of nc, abusers of nc and everyone in between are ungrateful scum no wonder he gave up on it.
Imo one of the biggest problems with nocheat was that it forced people to use a single client. a q2 anticheat prog should be developed as a separate binary, and contain a list of "allowed" clients... it's pretty easy to verify binary files with some sort of CRC or encrypted hash...
In a community where there is so much choice: sounds, models, textures, and even the client, many people will be reluctant to change just to please an anticheat client. "Why should I have to change my aq2 because some other dumbass cheats?"
In the old days, admins used to stuff screenshots to people who was suspected of cheating. In my opinion this is the best way to stop people from cheating.
Those who wanted to play with their l33t WH's on, would have to think twice in the future, before they turned it on, and im sure the treat of getting caught this way alone, would prevent many people from actually using it.
A screenshot might not allways catch a cheater, but it would scare most people willing to cheat not to use it in the first place.
If people then refuses to send the screenshot stuffed, it should have the same consequences as if they were caught cheating, for this to be effective. Its also much less work for admins trying to catch cheaters this way, than having to sit and record and watch long demos.
